two different animals all together imo.

i prefer drum machines, but asking this question is like asking "what do you prefer to drink with your breakfast? OJ or Milk?"

i personally voted both.

live hats and cymbals are better for numerous reasons, but a live kick will never beat a classic roland 808 or 909. the 707 snare and cowbell are essential. oh and, electronic hand claps ftw. please put down your alesis SR16, you're not helping anyone. and i don't care what anyone tells you, linndrums are for pussies.

i prefer drum machines, but asking this question is like asking "what do you prefer to drink with your breakfast? OJ or Milk?"

They're both beverages.

Also, live kick, correctly mic'ed, kills any drum machine. Not that you'll hear that very often in this town.

they're both part of this complete breakfast.

"they're both part of this complete breakfast."

Haha, yes.

What about Brian Kotzur or Scott Martin?? I'd take them over Rollum Haas any day...

a live kick will never beat a classic 808 / 809 ... ?
for every application and every musical style? (not to mention if say, if we're lucky enough that the drummer plays with something called dynamics.... god forbid!!)
..really dude?!....
and i'll have tang for breakfast please. then pizza after the show.
and i would killl myself if i had to use a 707 for a snare sound.

808/909 vs. Kick -- They both have their places, but you can compromise.

For most live applications, I use a 20 inch bass drum, which is rather small and portable. When tuned and mic'd correctly (which takes some time and work) it sounds pretty massive, but without the lingering ring of say a 23 or 24. Then I trigger the thing using Clavia's D-Drum system (the heavy duty ones, don't waste your money on the cheapun's) and run that through a tube pre. Then you run the resulting signal out to the PA. Use an 808 for that dull rumble, which accents the higher mallet strike. No latency and you're golden. This is much less complicated than it sounds.

Its a nice insurance policy in case the sound guy can't do his job (although I'd argue that there are some pretty decent folks here in town.)

Regarding drum machines - I'm a firm believer in playing to a click. (I don't do it all the time, because that would be very lame, but I think drummers should be able to do it on command. It's like mental weight lifting.) I like to use a KORG ES1 (cheap but road-worthy) along side the kit which can be used in compliment to the actual drumming or by itself for that nice Ween effect. This has other benefits.

1. You can use it to 'dub' yourself, and/or play nice polyrhythmic shit on multiple levels. Just tap tempo your BPM and either play with one hand while manipulating the dials, or just lock the fuck in with both hands.

2. If you have to take a piss during the set, you can seemlessly switch to 'autopilot' on your machine, hop off the stool, and head on down to el bano. I love beer so this happens from time to time. Great thread, Steve!

Toney $tarks -

did i say "every application and musical style"? no.

your average abelton user can create dynamics within any drum sounds with basic programing when using impulse. show me one good modern producer who uses stock electronic drum sounds on anything but acid throw back records and i'll be the first to offer to shake his dick when his pisses.

also, the 707 is a highly overlooked machine. it's 12 bit samples are amazing when used correctly as a base before proper compression and eqing.

ig-88 -

remind me again what fruit milk comes from.

Excess percussion is for damn hippies.

remind me again what fruit milk comes from.

remind me again how a drum machine is an animal.

maybe i read your comment wrong. fruit milk comes from nestle. mmm, strawberry quik!