I think Glen called it back in March. I'm not buying into the tip jar/widget concept. It's nice to see people trying new things, but your average consumer just isn't going to care enough to try something new and differnt? Raise your hand if you're an indie musician and you've made any money from the Snocap widget on your myspace page?

That's what I thought.

that thing actually looked cool until i got to the part where i had to pay $250 as an artist to post my stuff up there (and that's only for the first 20,000 downloads?!). you can basically do the same thing by using a torrent site such as massmirror or sharebee to post your stuff, a myspace page, and a paypal donation box on your site, all three of which are free.

granted you don't get the added bonus of knowing people's email addresses who like your stuff (or 3 of their friends), but some people don't like endless emails about an artist your friend is cursorily interested in. maybe they need to figure out how to generate ad revenue or launch a social networking platform along with it, because this just doesn't seem enticing to the performer OR the audience in the end.

Yeah, Snocap isn't working very well. But that's because they're doing something that everyone else is doing, and not as well (itunes, amazonmp3, etc.). The difference here is that no one else is really doing this.

They're not selling records, they're giving them away. And asking fans to pay any amount (a measly dollar if you want...) or tell 3 friends about the album (who would probably thank you for it) is a totally different approach.

And I think it makes sense that they charge $250. That's actually really cheap for the hosting of 20,000 albums downloaded. especially if you remember that you're making 90% of what fans are paying AND get names, emails, and zip codes for all of them. That info for 20k new fans alone is worth more than $250... how many fans are on your current email list?

And saying that you can do the exact same thing for free on a torrent site, except "you don't get the added bonus of knowing people's email addresses you like your stuff (or 3 of their friends)", is like saying the (free) United States Postal Service is exactly like (paid) FEDEX. Granted, you can't track your packages, get them there overnight, or insure them if they get lost or damaged. I mean, other than that, they're EXACTLY the same. :)

Lastly, I don't see NoiseTrade as a middle-man. It puts the artist squarely in control, connecting directly to the fans. Like the guy said, they're acting more as a conduit than a psudo-record label. I think it's revolutionary.

i know people that make good money with snocap. just sayin

Tracy,

I must second the notion that NoiseTrade is definitely NOT a middleman. Would you say that a "CD" is a middleman, simply because you have to go through the process of putting a CD in a CD player ~before~ you hear your music? Of course not. Dumb analogy, but NoiseTrade is clearly more of a "conduit" as stated earlier. If it would at all be considered a middleman, it would be at the lowest, most inconsequential level.

On another note, in the age of the MP3, the only way for artists to survive is to participate in something like this. If someone is going to "steal" your music, what better commentary and system than something like this. It reminds people that music is worth something and a little guilt to pay what you feel like is fair can go along way. I would much rather make 2 bucks (and get 3 "potential-fan" emails) for someone buying my whole record than statutory rate and the entanglements of a record label anyday!

what's to insure these 3 emails are any good? or are we just assuming the consumer plays by the honor code in providing good "leads"?

Pancho,

Isn't the entire "pay what you feel like" philosophy based on the honor code as it is? Why not extend that to the email aspect?

If the money does not go directly into an artist's Paypal account (or whatever) then NoiseTrade is definitely a middleman. If NoiseTrade takes a cut of the revenue, it's a middleman.

But this is all semantics and nitpicking. Middleman are not inherently bad. Labels, distributors, retailers, even agents...they provide services and connect artists with consumers.

I think for some people this boils down to an argument over fairness. 90% of revenue seems very fair, doesn't it? iTunes takes about 30%...not as fair, until you figure that most people buy their downloads at iTunes. High volume x margin > Low volume x better margin.

It can be argued that indie artists can't get visibility at iTunes but will get visibility at site like NoiseTrade. Yeah, it looks like a good platform for artists with relatively few resources. And maybe the more fervent fans will go directly to NoiseTrade and donate $20 apiece.

Any artist that puts up music at NoiseTrade should also sell music at other stores. The not-so-secret way to sell music is to be available at as many stores as possible. People will shop where they like to shop, and artists need to take advantage of that.

"Middleman" would imply that NoiseTrade is a profit-making organization...which I am not really sure it is...can someone clarify this? Is NoiseTrade essentially a non-profit with the 10% essentially only being used to run the business? If is making profit, then yes, its a middleman, but so far the least greedy and most likeable middleman ever created in the biz.

Thanks for that point, Glen, and I agree. Again, it was merely a quibble, and it was a semantic one at that—not a value judgment.

Villa,
I hear ya, just hate to violate the "permission-based" rule of email marketing (more than I already do).

Just so everyone's clear, when you put in friend's email addresses, NoiseTrade doesn't see them. Your friends get an email from YOU, saying that they got a free record from (whoever) by recommending it to 3 friends they thought would like it. If they hit reply, you can tell them it's cool and not spam. And if they don't reply or decide to check the record out they never hear from anyone again. This is a system of music recommendation, not a violation of 'permission-based' ethics...

All "middleman" talk aside - the interface of the site is pretty easy to use and makes purchasing / notifying friends relatively easy. I just snagged the new Umbrella Tree for kicks. The whole "send you a bill" style email procedure is a bit off putting- as is the final step of "Find More Music" that just opens the site in a new window but I guess it can't be perfect.

My biggest gripe is that if this is meant as a tool for artists to sell their music relatively easily why is it so hard to find a permanent link to a particular users "widget"? I see the Share This button and then the 9,000 options of how to share it but not once do I just see a single URL to link to that particular album. If I was going to use this service I'd like to be flexible in how I can implement it, not constrained to just embedding a widget (MySpace is notoriously bad about security measures on Flash applications, not to mention their Orange/Black color scheme may not fit well with whatever promotion I'm working on).

Not being an artist that has put anything on any of these services I am curious to see how it works out for people in contrast to something like CD Baby - which not only sells your physical product but also gets you on the major e-retailers. But as someone mentioned above, the more venues you're available on, the better.

Michael,
I actually really appreciated not putting my credit card into the widget, but rather getting a verification email, THEN putting my credit card in on the site where it can be secure (which widgets aren't for credit card transactions...). And the reason it opens the site in a new window is because the majority of the time folks are seeing an artist's widget on NoiseTrade, but on that artist's website, MySpace, Facebook, etc. So after they've downloaded they can see lots of other free records. I actually found a few more that way...

And I'm not sure how you might have missed the URL code beneath all of the 'share' options, which is available to copy/paste the widget anywhere you want. But if you're looking to just view the widget, go to the artists MySpace. I'm sure it's there. Or go back to NoiseTrade and click on the artist's album cover. It just doesn't seem that complicated to me.

In terms of CD Baby, do you know how much it costs to manufacture a record nowadays? A LOT of indie artists can't afford it. But they can make records themselves. So this gives them a chance to release it in a way that makes meaningful impressions with their fans and benefits them tremendously, with info and cash, giving your fans a choice. Like has been said already here, this isn't CD Baby, or iTunes, or Snocap. This is a totally new model. And I personally think this is a LOT more like the future than any of those...

(2nd time this comment has been "posted" for some reason) Littlemac, are you a rep for this company? You seem to know a lot about this. You've posted 3 comments about the technology, and the last one you seem pretty defensive about how it's not working for someone who was actually on your website and trying the site out.

I want to know if you are actually using this AS AN ARTIST or if you are trying to sell me on the virtues of this technology. To some people it makes a difference.

I am friends with the folks who started this thing, so I understand it better than some. I've seen how it works and how it's working for folks who are using it. I just hate that folks are misunderstanding it and writing it off so quickly. I just think the future can be that way sometimes. It's a really new idea, let's just give it a chance and see what it proves. I guess I just really believe in it. Didn't mean to come off so defensive...

Pancho has a record he might try this on...trying everything else so why not, eh?

...waiting for my last.fm royalties to arrive, any day now I'm sure.

When did I write it off? Maybe you just misread my comments. I was just documenting my experience with it. Maybe the share URL is obvious to you but as a new user to the widget it didn't pop out to me amongst the myriad of buttons that appeared for proliferation to other sites.

My comments were meant as a way to improve things. why would the widget behave the same when you're in the site as opposed to when it is embedded?

Don't be so quick to be defensive! Please take my feedback as room for improvement, not a user saying "this sucks" - because that's not what I said.

Honestly, the imbedded code couldn't be more obvious to me. Its like...right there. I would just say, look at your computer screen for 2 seconds and you'll probably find it.

Fortunately I'm not talking about the embed code. Yes, I see that giant block of HTML code. I am not blind. I am talking about a direct link to a particular album in question. Say I wanted to send an album recommendation to a friend (just one, not three) - how do I send a direct deep link into the Flash site? Something like noisetrade.com/artists/1234/ or noisetrade.com/umbrella-tree/. If I want to tell someone about a particular album I don't want to have to embed the entire widget on my site.

I am looking at the site again and still don't see an option for that, so I guess I am blind or you guys weren't reading what I was asking for.

AND just for the record, I just clicked through all the options on the Share This portion of the widget and _still_ can not find one single place that is a single copy-able direct link URL. Everything is either widget code or some link to interact with another site.

I'm not being a bitch about this, just saying that what I'm asking for actually isn't obviously present and this is not a misunderstanding.